Super Suckage Double Feature!
July 16, 2007 9:13 pmOK, I have two three Special Someones tonight to discuss.
The first is Supermicro, because there’s the least to rant about. Namely, when I wrote my last post, it did not take very long at all for someone from an IP address that resolved to Supermicro to respond to my post; less than an hour. It typically takes a day for their tech support to respond to an actual request for help, and even then it’s generally a cryptic one-line answer that makes me more confused as to how their products (don’t) work. Especially when dealing with their terrible IPMI card for the PDSMA motherboard- what gets it working is completely different from what their tech support and documentation says. For a department of our size, we’re buying a lot of products from them. We may not be big customers, but we’ve been loyal customers, goddamnit, and now I would like to see about buying future needs from other vendors due to SuperMicro not just sucking, but rubbing it in my face how much they suck through my own website. If anyone wishes to elaborate on this, I will.
Next up is Seagate. We purchased 16 750 GB SATA-II drives from them. We expected them to work as SATA-II drives, yes? They come pre-installed with the little jumpers that force them to work as SATA-I drives. No big deal normally; the average home user wouldn’t ever tell the difference. However, when you’re trying to get them to work with a SAS backplane and controller that the hardware vendor says “Well, yeah, it kind of sucks, sorry you had to buy our product to find out” with, it’s a Big Deal. We’d be getting all sorts of data errors across the 16 drives, and things just Wouldn’t Work.
Why didn’t I remove the jumpers? Because I didn’t know they were there. These things measure about 1mm x 1mm x 2mm. They’re small. With my Wonderful Awesome depth perception under the harsh fluorescent glare of the machine room, I thought at first they were colored plastic bases for the pins, so you knew exactly which ones to jumper. Then, I noticed they were jumpers, but so small that either they were blocks to discourage random jumpering, or that they were configured like that for SATA-II from the factory.
Only after the “Storage Doctor” commented about SATA-II did I figure on forcing the drives to act as SATA-I. So, after spending too much time looking through crappy documentation, I realized those drives were jumpered. So I took out the jumpers, and found the only dead drive in the batch (you order lots of drives at once, you expect a lemon or two). The system is working more or less alright now.
And, finally, the Wheel Of Suck turns to the Portland Group. They make a set of really handy compilers for Fortran and C/C++. There is, however, a big problem. The model I’m hacking on won’t compile with the latest version (7.0). It didn’t compile under 6.2 either, leaving us stuck with 5.2. It’s not my problem- it throws an Internal Compiler Error, which means their compiler broke somewhere on the inside. I tried to get help. I’ve been sending them weekly emails since June 22nd. Until I get an answer, I’m going to start emailing them twice a week. Then three times a week. I might just set up a cron job to get their attention. Something has to be done.
Categories: Geeky Peawee


10 Responses to “Super Suckage Double Feature!”
I stumbled on this post researching 8888ELP controllers and your blog post is a bit confusing.
After removing the drive jumpers, did you end up with SATA-II or SATA drives? When I read the documentation on the controller it said it was only compatible with SATA-II drives.
Also, have you tried installing Solaris on them? I know that LSI recently released a Solaris driver for the Megaraid Series. However, I haven’t heard of anyone using it, so it’d be great to know if it works! =)
Thanks!
I’ll be emailing this to you as well just to make sure you get a reply.
To answer your question, I did end up with SATA II drives after removing the jumpers, and the system has been running quite nicely since then (with up to 300 MB/s off of the array even!).
And no, we have not tried installing Solaris on them, as the Megaraid drivers for Solaris didn’t exist yet, and we needed it working correctly right then. Linux works well enough to export the RAID anyhow, so that’s fine.
As for the iSCSI part of our san, we’re currently exporting from the standard gigabit ports on our RAID boxes, and have a QLogic iSCSI HBA on our server (soon to be a shiny new Sun x4200 M2).
Hope that answered your question!
he peawee !
happy new year
here is my wishes and problem :
I want a chassis with SAS expander integrated so I can use :
- desktop motherboard
- high end SAS RAID controller (areca 1680x)
- connect at least 16 HDD with ONE cable (SFF-8088)
- hdds HAVE TO BE SATA
the only chassis I found i the supermicro you use : SC836E1 !
i read and read the documentation carefully, yes LSI expander support SATA but not supermicro.
here is the answer for edwar chen, supermicro techsupport :
“You can use the 836TQ model with SATA hard drives, however you cannot use SATA drives with any of our E1 or E2 models. That’s the spec and if you have difficulties with connecting SATA hard drives we will not be able to help. We can provide assistance with SAS hard drives.
Edward”
So… if i’m not dreaming, IT DO wORKS, you use it !
please confirm this mess,
best regards,
fredsky
Basically, it works. It was painful and something I’d not like to repeat, but it works. In addition, we tried getting a second chassis, full of 1 TB Hitachi drives, to use as an external expansion bay. This was connected using all the SuperMicro recommended parts to the external port on our LSI 8888, and nothing worked, and no combination of anything got it to work, so your mileage may vary.
As to Supermicro tech support, they’re terrible. They’re only good for telling you when something doesn’t work, such as in the case of these backplanes. There hasn’t been any mention of a desire to help solve problems that come up, and in other cases (such as the IPMI card for the PDSMA), when the documentation is actually wrong, they insist that it’s right. Their documentation is so right that on every PDSMA we have around here, the only way I’ve gotten IPMI to work is the way I figured out after a week of trial-and-error.
Basically, email them to file a bug report, but don’t expect anything. See my post “Supermicro, You Suck”’s comments. The “Storage Doctor” posted from an IP address that mapped back to supermicro.com. I got that reply about 30 minutes after I made that post, as opposed to the glacial times it takes Supermicro to normally respond.
To summarize: if it works, then awesome, and it’ll work *great*. If it doesn’t, you’re out a few grand with some smug tech support replies from the venduh.
seem that a working solution is AIC server chassis with Vitesse SAS expander built-in
choice of 1 or 2 (failover) SAS expander built-in
choice of space : 1U, 2U, 3U
choice of disks : 2.5 or 3.5 inch
the compatibilty and usability are impressive :
http://www.aicipc.com/Downloads.aspx?ref=RM
http://www.aicipc.com/Downloads/ReferenceMatrix/SAS_SATA_Cable_HDD.pdf
adaptec, areca (1680), LSI approuved SAS card
SAS and SATA disks tested:)
http://www.aicipc.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ref=RSC-3EC2-2
see the webinar here :
http://www.aicipc.com/Downloads.aspx?ref=T
seem to be the holly grail !
regards,
fredsky
*******
see my complete post here :
http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?t=88576
The AIC solution looks nice, but the Chassis is more than twice as expensive.
In your summary, you indicate it only works sometimes. From your narrative, it seems that you worked out all the bugs and got it to function on a full-time basis.
I just want to clarify, do you use the system you described above in a production environment?
Oh, on that expansion chassis that did not work, did you have the “jbod power pack” installed? I think the backplane can’t function without it.
Double oh.
Do you think that the SAS Expander limits the total throughput compared to direct connect drives? It seems that 300MB/s Read or Write would be the limit on an Expander, versus 400-600MB/s with direct connect.
Oops, the SAS Expander uses 4 lanes, so 1.2Gbps bandwidth. That eliminates the bottleneck. I assumed only 1 SAS lane.
er, 12Gbps
Care to comment?